Hi everyone, I have not visited for over a year now, but now have a toilet-trained 2 yo who was PT cloth, and a 3 month old who I am just starting to phase into cloth.
I must say it is weird 2nd time round. I think the first time the sheer novelty of the MCNs propelled me. This time the nappies are older, not as bright, shiny (you know what I mean) and soft, and I am finding the transition a little hard.
I must say with every nappy I have changed so far I have been very aware of the landfill but also acutely aware of just how damned convenient sposies are. And I really do find them a major feat of engineering - the good ones really do hold so much, you really only need to change them a couple of times a day plus poos obviously.
I'm finding when I have her in clothies it is constantly on my mind that I must change her, eg. after outings, before every nap etc, whereas in sposie land I really wouldn't be fussed at all as I would be confident they would be up to the task.
A friend gave me a stack of flat terries which I like to use for the old-school factor, maybe I am letting them freak me out with how soaked they get. But I definitely find I would need to use several more clothies (even mcns) per day than sposies, which I think should come into the carbon calculations somewhere when the 2 are compared.
Anyway, hope you are all enjoying your kids and your nappies, sorry about the ramble :)
0
Sposies reduce total nappy numbers and stress?
Started by *kelly*, Sep 14 2009 08:34 PM
41 replies to this topic
#2
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 1,587 posts
High School
Posted 14 September 2009 - 09:08 PM
i think that you would probably use the same number of MCNs as sposies on a daily basis ... i am not sure that it is a good idea to only change nappy a couple of times a day, regardless of how much they hold
PLUS, every time you use a sposie, you throw it out. based on your idea of say 4 sposies a day, you would have used 28 in a week, which is all the mcns you would need FOREVER
and if you need some motivation, get a couple of new nappies :D
PLUS, every time you use a sposie, you throw it out. based on your idea of say 4 sposies a day, you would have used 28 in a week, which is all the mcns you would need FOREVER
and if you need some motivation, get a couple of new nappies :D
#3
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 6,743 posts
University
Posted 14 September 2009 - 09:08 PM
I actually liked that about my cloth nappies. I was more aware about changing DD and was less likely to leave her in a wet nappy for a long period of time. I am lucky though that she is not a heavy wetter, so I can still get 5 hours out of an Itti if I really need to (like when we were moving house).
I don't know about the carbon calculations of sposies vs cloth, but considering that there mainly made with bamboo, I don't think its overly comparable. Plus cloth is so much cuter!
I don't know about the carbon calculations of sposies vs cloth, but considering that there mainly made with bamboo, I don't think its overly comparable. Plus cloth is so much cuter!
#4 *neejchee*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 14 September 2009 - 09:14 PM
Yeah I change Addi just as often either way, but wouldn't want her left in a urine soaked nappy regardless of whether it's about to leak or not.
That said, I do recognise the convenience factor of sposies! I have to consciously NOT use any through the day, because I've found in the past if I put even just one sposie on her in the morning because I'm feeling lazy or whatever, I feel like I can't be fucked with cloth for the rest of the day. So I just wont let myself go there.
That said, I do recognise the convenience factor of sposies! I have to consciously NOT use any through the day, because I've found in the past if I put even just one sposie on her in the morning because I'm feeling lazy or whatever, I feel like I can't be fucked with cloth for the rest of the day. So I just wont let myself go there.
#5
-
- Newbies
- Feedback: View
-
- 4,478 posts
High School
Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:11 AM
I've been using sposies on DD for nearly 3 weeks (since moving house and a really bad rash). I can't seem to pick up another mcn, they just seem like so much work after using sposies. My DD is a super light wetter, i mean 4 wees a day, so she really only needs 3/4 sposies a day and even then 1 or 2 of them are still almost dry!
I LOVE not having to rinse poo, wash dirty nappies (eww), hang them out and bring them in. Plus i'm 33 weeks pregnant and feeling quite lazy :P
All that said though i'm still not 100% sure i'm ready to quit so will hang onto DD's nappies a while longer.
I LOVE not having to rinse poo, wash dirty nappies (eww), hang them out and bring them in. Plus i'm 33 weeks pregnant and feeling quite lazy :P
All that said though i'm still not 100% sure i'm ready to quit so will hang onto DD's nappies a while longer.
#6
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 21,154 posts
Masters
Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:11 AM
Quote
i think that you would probably use the same number of MCNs as sposies on a daily basis ... i am not sure that it is a good idea to only change nappy a couple of times a day, regardless of how much they hold
PLUS, every time you use a sposie, you throw it out. based on your idea of say 4 sposies a day, you would have used 28 in a week, which is all the mcns you would need FOREVER
and if you need some motivation, get a couple of new nappies :D
PLUS, every time you use a sposie, you throw it out. based on your idea of say 4 sposies a day, you would have used 28 in a week, which is all the mcns you would need FOREVER
and if you need some motivation, get a couple of new nappies :D
Ditto that! Cait goes through 5-6 nappies per day, and we have a 25-28 stash.. Wash on the 3rd day, and voila.. I only had to pay for 15 day nappies, made the inserts myself(pocket trifolds), and pay for 4-5 night nappies.. I'd say around $900 tops, even including the sewing notions/ones I made, and fabric for liners.
I think you also need to put into consideration that it takes one cup of crude oil to make EACH and EVERY sposie. That's a lot of waste imho - as well as it filling up landfills for millions of years.
*shrug* to each their own, but I can't see how anyone can justify sposies when mcn's are just one or two extra loads of washing a week.
#7
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 13,747 posts
Masters
Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:47 AM
i cant really comment on the amount of nappies, cause alex poos like 8 times a day these days so shed have to be changed anyway. but i hear you on the convienience. the only reason ive started alex back in cloth part time is cause shes rashin up from the sposies again. good luck
#9
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 2,205 posts
High School
Posted 15 September 2009 - 08:09 AM
I sometimes think it would be just easier to use sposies, but then when i have to take out the smelly bin to a full smelly wheelie bin. And i have to take the car out to buy them and remember where they are on special, and pay for them. I am not sure that they are easier.
If you are fining it to hard, put them away for a while, the love may return. If not then sell them and move on.
If you are fining it to hard, put them away for a while, the love may return. If not then sell them and move on.
#10 *hobo*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 15 September 2009 - 08:33 AM
I don't find it any harder to use sposies, atlhough I do like the idea of not having to go out in the cold to put stinky nappies in the bin, even now I don't like that idea because our bin is near a plant full of bees (i'm allergic to bees)
I change her mcn's as much as i used to change sposies
I change her mcn's as much as i used to change sposies
#11
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 3,050 posts
High School
Posted 15 September 2009 - 08:42 AM
I used to use 100% sposies untill DS was about 26mths old untill i was introduced to MCN's i personally am thankfull the smell is gone from the bin gives me shivers thinking about it ewwwww!!!!
I wash every few days and think it is not difference to washing a load of towels or clothes in a day, wash them and hang them out takes 2 minutes to turn the machine on and 2 minutes to hang them out etc etc.... Dosnt take alot from my life, the added bonus of not having to smell urine or poo in my bins is AWESOME !
I also think buying 3 or 4 new or EUC condition nappies might make it easier for you to use the cloth a little motivation :)
I went to the shops the other day to buy some sposies as back up incase DS goes to mums or i run out (HIGHLY UNLIKELY LOL) and i just couldnt put them into the trolley :( was thinking even $10 for home brand back up nappies was out of my budget, so i went home and spent $40 online LMAO made me feel better though.
Goodluck i hope you get into using them for your little one soon, im sure once you start you wont want to stop !! :D
I wash every few days and think it is not difference to washing a load of towels or clothes in a day, wash them and hang them out takes 2 minutes to turn the machine on and 2 minutes to hang them out etc etc.... Dosnt take alot from my life, the added bonus of not having to smell urine or poo in my bins is AWESOME !
I also think buying 3 or 4 new or EUC condition nappies might make it easier for you to use the cloth a little motivation :)
I went to the shops the other day to buy some sposies as back up incase DS goes to mums or i run out (HIGHLY UNLIKELY LOL) and i just couldnt put them into the trolley :( was thinking even $10 for home brand back up nappies was out of my budget, so i went home and spent $40 online LMAO made me feel better though.
Goodluck i hope you get into using them for your little one soon, im sure once you start you wont want to stop !! :D
#12 *kelly*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 15 September 2009 - 01:41 PM
Thanks for all your lovely thoughts and ideas ladies. It is great to hear what happens in all these different walks of life. I feel I can relate to a little bit of each story. Well I have just bought a second-hand cover online as one new cover I bought during pregnancy is FANTASTIC and so cute (Rikki) and I think having another may be enough to motivate me :)
Look forward to reading more interesting snippets on the site.
Look forward to reading more interesting snippets on the site.
#13 *my_fallen_angel*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:46 PM
you only change sposies a couple of times a day?
ewwwwwwwww
that is what i hate about them!
they need to be changed just as much as cloth does!
the thought of a full sposie hanging down between their knees makes me feel sick :(
ewwwwwwwww
that is what i hate about them!
they need to be changed just as much as cloth does!
the thought of a full sposie hanging down between their knees makes me feel sick :(
#14 *TemMumOf3*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:56 PM
Farkin ell people are judgemental here LOL
Good on ya for enjoying your Sposies-
and absolutely they're easier- The convenience of them is amazing
Sometimes I miss them- Knowing I can just bin them- and not worry about it
My Cloth nappying doesn't have much to do with the environment- it's simply because I enjoy cloth :)
Good on ya for enjoying your Sposies-
and absolutely they're easier- The convenience of them is amazing
Sometimes I miss them- Knowing I can just bin them- and not worry about it
My Cloth nappying doesn't have much to do with the environment- it's simply because I enjoy cloth :)
#15
-
- Supporter
- Feedback: View
-
- 4,472 posts
High School
Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:00 PM
I use the same amount of MCNs as I would sposies - that's about four a day. Poos not withstanding - but sometimes if a nappy has just been changed - with a liner in it and DS does a poo - it's really easy to remove the poo and liner - and put a new liner in the same nappy. You can't do that with a sposie. We use sposie's at night. DS2 is 23 months. I didn't put him in MCN until 6 months though (DS1 was in cloth erratically) because he was such a dreadful chucker it was hard to keep up with the washing as it was (I had to change my own clothes three times a day - let alone his).
#16 *neejchee*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:14 PM
lol, I couldn't do that with a pooped on nappy; as it is I had to force myself to let her keep the same (clean) pants after I'd changed a pooped on nappy because I was convinced the smell may have gone through and her pants were contaminated! :P
#17
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 1,587 posts
High School
Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:27 PM
i have to say i use cloth because of the environmental reasons. Until dd was 1 i used flannel/terry flats. Used these all the time with DS. Now looking at a couple of swim nappies becuase i REALLY hate the idea of having to use sposies for swimming.
#18 *whiterabbit11*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:54 PM
oh those swim sposies are vile. am looking forward to trying a mcn swim nappy this summer!
luckily she's not a big pooer, so while it's occassionally gross to rinse out sticky poo, that's not an everyday occurrence for me. i change regularly regardless, and i love the softness, prettiness, and 'realness' of cloth. i love not feeling guilty every time i chuck another sposie in the bin, knowing that it will still be there when alice's grandchildren have children. sobering thought.
luckily she's not a big pooer, so while it's occassionally gross to rinse out sticky poo, that's not an everyday occurrence for me. i change regularly regardless, and i love the softness, prettiness, and 'realness' of cloth. i love not feeling guilty every time i chuck another sposie in the bin, knowing that it will still be there when alice's grandchildren have children. sobering thought.
#20
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 4,993 posts
High School
Posted 15 September 2009 - 10:08 PM
I love cloth nappies but only during the day and only for my youngest (oldest is still in pull ups at night and occasionally on outtings - she was a full time sposie baby and putting her in cloth actually put her toilet training back :( ) Can't do cloth at night, DD2 has really strong wee and the only way to get rid of it is to give her a bath, no time of a morning I'm afraid and it stinks bleugh!
I tend to change more with MCN, I have to try and refrain from changing too often because I just want to use my pretties :) DD2 goes to daycare 3 times a week so I really do miss using them full time ..
I tend to change more with MCN, I have to try and refrain from changing too often because I just want to use my pretties :) DD2 goes to daycare 3 times a week so I really do miss using them full time ..
#21 *kat13*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:27 PM
I wouldn't consider leaving a nappy on for xxx amount of hrs just because it can hold up. You are effectively leaving your child's skin exposed to urine/ammonia for quite some time.
As everyone has said here whether they use sposies or cloth they are changed equally at "regular" intervals during the day.
If you are worried about carbon calculations, it has actually been proven that cloth use reduce energy emissions by approx 24% WEN
As everyone has said here whether they use sposies or cloth they are changed equally at "regular" intervals during the day.
If you are worried about carbon calculations, it has actually been proven that cloth use reduce energy emissions by approx 24% WEN
#22 *Slinky*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 16 September 2009 - 08:17 AM
Quote
I'm finding when I have her in clothies it is constantly on my mind that I must change her, eg. after outings, before every nap etc, whereas in sposie land I really wouldn't be fussed at all as I would be confident they would be up to the task.
Up to the task perhaps but they are still a urine soaked chemical cocktail sitting on your childs skin.
Consider yourself "lucky" (?) I guess that you can go longer with a sposie. My kids have had revere rashes if they were left in one for too long and had to have the cream plastered on for naps and bedtimes. Personally even if I have left them longer in one I find the smell to be quite pungent. Cloth has a smell about it too but not the same as sposies.
I've had breaks from cloth and used them when things got on top of me, don't get me wrong, but the break was enough for me to realise how much of a waste of money they are and how much rubbish they generate!
#23 *Jodie*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 16 September 2009 - 08:50 AM
Disposables are supposed to be changed after every wee, sure they can take more, but I wouldnt want to be around in wet knickers all day (if you know what I mean).
Sposies are made of chemicals, which get wet (the crystals), and these chemical crystals are sitting on your childs precious skin. This happens when the nappy is just too full. To change a baby only 4 times a day for wee's is just not enough, especially if a small baby, who wees alot (with the fluid intake).
Cloth nappies dont have chemicals (so no crystals). If you invest in some proven awesome nappies (such as Wild Child or the likes) then you wont have the problems with wetting through etc etc.
I used terry flats with fluffies covers for my first 4 children (cause MCNs werent really around at all then) then MCN for my last baby, and even with 5 children, it wasnt a hassle at all with the washing etc..
Sposies are made of chemicals, which get wet (the crystals), and these chemical crystals are sitting on your childs precious skin. This happens when the nappy is just too full. To change a baby only 4 times a day for wee's is just not enough, especially if a small baby, who wees alot (with the fluid intake).
Cloth nappies dont have chemicals (so no crystals). If you invest in some proven awesome nappies (such as Wild Child or the likes) then you wont have the problems with wetting through etc etc.
I used terry flats with fluffies covers for my first 4 children (cause MCNs werent really around at all then) then MCN for my last baby, and even with 5 children, it wasnt a hassle at all with the washing etc..
#24 *whiterabbit11*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:45 AM
neejchee you crack me up - aqua-turder?! :D heh heh heh luckily we also don't poo al fresco - i think just once. so i was thinking of just putting her in the bathers & hoping for the best! but thank you for the kind offer!
#25
-
- Supporter
- Feedback: View
-
- 4,472 posts
High School
Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:50 AM
Quote
lol, I couldn't do that with a pooped on nappy; as it is I had to force myself to let her keep the same (clean) pants after I'd changed a pooped on nappy because I was convinced the smell may have gone through and her pants were contaminated! :P
Lol - yeah well - I'd only ever do it if he's literally just done it - and it's a small solid one - that really doesn't leave a mark IYKWIM. I wouldn't do it if he'd squished it of course! LOL...
#28
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 2,470 posts
High School
Posted 22 September 2009 - 01:25 PM
I use cloth because I love the whole package. They are better for the environment, save me tonnes of money, look gorgeous as opposed to boring disposables, don't stink my bin out, are better for my child as they are natural materials. I am fully hooked on modern cloth nappies and nothing compares. Yeah disposables might save you a few minutes per day but who hasn't got a few minutes per day they can put themselves aside and do something that will help the earth? Instead of knowing there is an option out there that could allow them to help the planet and deliberately choosing not to help. It is sort of like not using your recycling bin. It annoys me actually. I think by taking a few minutes of you day to take care of the environment you are thinking of the future generations and not just yourself.
#30
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 2,299 posts
High School
Posted 22 October 2009 - 01:06 PM
i too love cloth, though have only just gone to using them full time during the day. can't seem to find one for nights yet. :( just recieved some fitteds, so going to make a woolen cover and hope for the best!!!!! i do it for a mixture of both, financial and economical reasons. i am also looking into going the cloth pad route, because i figure they must take as long as nappies to break down. i change dd the same amount whether cloth or sposies, and i love seeing my clothies out on the line, and i find it quite relaxing to put them all back together of an evening....... i'm weird, i know!!! LOL!!!!
#31 *Miss_Catie*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 22 October 2009 - 03:24 PM
v21, I reccommend GF's for night :D
Im new to MCN, only been using for about 2 months now, but I wont put DD in a sposie unless Its essential (like while trying to convince the creche at my gym MCN are easy to use lol)
As for using more cloth then sposies, I dont find that the case... I changed DD before I went out, before nap etc anyway even in a sposie... Maybe I use a very very small amount more then sposies, but not noticebely more (not like 3 sposies compared to 8 MCN for example)
I reccommend MCN to everyone now, and my pitching line is "They really arent as much work as you think they are!" Which is my main reason for not trying them to begin with.
I originally had some terryflats to use when i was pregnant, but got sucked into using sposies
Im new to MCN, only been using for about 2 months now, but I wont put DD in a sposie unless Its essential (like while trying to convince the creche at my gym MCN are easy to use lol)
As for using more cloth then sposies, I dont find that the case... I changed DD before I went out, before nap etc anyway even in a sposie... Maybe I use a very very small amount more then sposies, but not noticebely more (not like 3 sposies compared to 8 MCN for example)
I reccommend MCN to everyone now, and my pitching line is "They really arent as much work as you think they are!" Which is my main reason for not trying them to begin with.
I originally had some terryflats to use when i was pregnant, but got sucked into using sposies
#33
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 2,299 posts
High School
Posted 22 October 2009 - 04:19 PM
Miss_Catie said:
v21, I reccommend GF's for night :D
Thanks Miss_Catie. Unfortunately we don't have that much money. :( That's why I am making my own..... I do have a fluffy bubs dreams here, but we still get a bit of lag gape with that...... I am going to keep trying with what I have and go from there. :D I'm sure I'll find something that will work. :)
#35
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 10,175 posts
Masters
Posted 25 October 2009 - 08:17 PM
sposies should be changed as much as cloth
i use cloth due to the chemical reasons and that was the main reason i switched, i used sposies with all my other 3 kids and for 6 weeks with DS, i had no idea what sposies contained and was horrified when i found out, would never use them again, regardless of how convenient they are, but thats IMO
everyone has a right to their own ;-)
i enjoy using cloth and enjoy laundering and puttiong them on the line and putting them back together but i guess i am weird like that...
i use cloth due to the chemical reasons and that was the main reason i switched, i used sposies with all my other 3 kids and for 6 weeks with DS, i had no idea what sposies contained and was horrified when i found out, would never use them again, regardless of how convenient they are, but thats IMO
everyone has a right to their own ;-)
i enjoy using cloth and enjoy laundering and puttiong them on the line and putting them back together but i guess i am weird like that...
#38 *becstar101*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 15 November 2009 - 06:16 PM
I think disposables are definitely a good convenience item, but I like to use the analogy of paper plates - there are reasons to use them (illness, moving house, broken washing machine, PND etc), but there's not much reason to use them every day. I went back to sposies when my son was born, but having a toddler and a newborn in sposies scared the hell out of me - we nearly filled a bin just with nappies every week. Now dd is day toilet trained, and ds is in cloth, I feel much better on bin day.
I do tend to leave a sposie on a little longer than an MCN if I'm out - but never too long imo.
I do tend to leave a sposie on a little longer than an MCN if I'm out - but never too long imo.
#39
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 3,834 posts
High School
Posted 15 November 2009 - 07:35 PM
We have been using cloth now for just on over 3wks and you know what, i'm really loving it! I've been putting it off for so long because I thought it would be just an extra chore in my day, but really its not as hard as I had it in my head that it would be. The only time they are in sposies during the day is on kindy days and that will change in the next few weeks (still building up my stash enough).
The other thing that has shocked me too is our bins! Our bin each week was nearly full but since we have been using the cloth, we are barely even quarter filling it. I think its awesome :D :D
Yeah sure, there are times when I'm changing a nappy thinking 'damn I wish this was a sposie so I could just throw it out' LOL (you know the kinds I'm talking about, the terrible explosions!) But i'm so glad that I am setting us up to be not only saving the planet in our own little way, but saving our hip pocket too.
The other thing that has shocked me too is our bins! Our bin each week was nearly full but since we have been using the cloth, we are barely even quarter filling it. I think its awesome :D :D
Yeah sure, there are times when I'm changing a nappy thinking 'damn I wish this was a sposie so I could just throw it out' LOL (you know the kinds I'm talking about, the terrible explosions!) But i'm so glad that I am setting us up to be not only saving the planet in our own little way, but saving our hip pocket too.
#40 *scemma*
-
- Guests
- Feedback: View
Posted 26 November 2009 - 10:22 PM
We have only just started cloth nappies, we haven't got any night nappies yet, saving up to try some GF super super trim night nappies! I have a Scarlett jayne but no cover yet. Disposables are convenient, especially when out and DD poos! But i love washing them and hanging them out, they look so colorful and gorgeous. Also we plan on having more little ones so hopefully will get to use them all again!
#41
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 2,002 posts
High School
Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:18 PM
I have been using cloth for months now, but sposies are definitely a quick fix. I only ever used Huggies because you get what you pay for when it comes to sposies, and one huggies would definitely last longer than a cloth nappy. But, I like the way that cloth doesn't leave crinkles on bubs skin, and she doesn't get red from the humidity in her nappy.
I guess in terms of environmental impact, the more expensive sposies are a better choice than the cheapos because you use less...
I guess in terms of environmental impact, the more expensive sposies are a better choice than the cheapos because you use less...
#42
-
- Members
- Feedback: View
-
- 330 posts
Kindergarten
Posted 07 December 2009 - 03:25 PM
TemMumOf3 said:
Farkin ell people are judgemental here LOL
Good on ya for enjoying your Sposies-
and absolutely they're easier- The convenience of them is amazing
Sometimes I miss them- Knowing I can just bin them- and not worry about it
My Cloth nappying doesn't have much to do with the environment- it's simply because I enjoy cloth :)
Good on ya for enjoying your Sposies-
and absolutely they're easier- The convenience of them is amazing
Sometimes I miss them- Knowing I can just bin them- and not worry about it
My Cloth nappying doesn't have much to do with the environment- it's simply because I enjoy cloth :)
Here here! Different strokes for different folks:)
I've just had a week of over use of the sposies, unorganised and unmotivated. However, all washing folded and sorted now and we're back to our mcn! Our little 4month old has been trying to roll over and has actually been hampered by the bulkier mcn. We put him in sposies and viola! He can roll over! Now his stronger, doesn't matter what the nappy is.
We use sposies for night time. Very heavy wetter and I don't have any mcn that can handle how much he wees!
I do love the mcn and have become very environmentally concious. However at times love the sposie!
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
